Pretty useless as I don't think even the iphone Xs will have anything higher than AC. I don't see a need for 11ad in routers, range is show short anyways, best use case is mostly just VR.
I don't know how you buy wifi aps, but when I buy one, it stays with me for at least a decade (until it stops working). Much longer than any phone. So if there is a major improvement around a corner, it's worth waiting for it. And WPA3 alone is good enough reason. OFDMA(throughput upgrade) and TWT(battery life for mobile devices), that are included in 802.11ax are other good reasons.
Completely agree. I still haven't had compelling reason to replace my old (I think it's actually more than 10 years now) Dlink 11N router, which serves the phones and laptops in the household fine for now (everything else is wired). Then again, there's no way I'm paying $500 for a router either. I'll be moving some parts of the network to 10GbE as soon as =/< 3-port switches arrive at reasonable prices (for two PCs and a NAS), but from my POV combining this with a wireless router seems like a bad idea. One would think "all-in-one" solutions like this would be cheaper overall, but they aren't at all. Then there's the lack of a useful number of ports, and seriously, who needs 10GbE WAN? Then there's the fact that optimal WiFi router placement and wired switch placement are not the same thing at all. I get that I'm more willing to pepper my house with networking devices than the average user, but this isn't targeted at the average user either.
Oh, and these mmwave networking standards seem rather silly, really. When line-of-sight is required for it to work, it can't be integrated into a huge device that also serves as a wired switch. Are we supposed to hang our routers proudly on the wall as if they were art? No thanks.
I mean 10GbE SEEMS overkill sure, but you got to remember how fast internet is changing. Technology changes so fast, remember when people debated if needed more than 4gigs of ram in a a system..most don't even consider it when building a new PC and go to 32gigs. Lots of stuff like that.
But on to the real reason, check out internet speed increases and how fast they change. In 2001 i was paying $250 a month for 128k/128k ISDN line to house with a $500 install fee. That was way more than i needed then. Literally 3 years latter we moved into "town" and could get cable internet for 512K download with 56k modem for upload speed (called it telco return) for $100 a month!
Fast forward now and rocking 300/40 from Charter for $80 a month. lol
So you say 10GbE might now mean much now, but when the tech comes to be in some VR world with realistic graphics that requires constant bandwidth you will be like "whoah".
Internet speeds aren't increasing that quickly, and we're seeing diminishing returns in terms of infrastructure upgrades vs. end-user speed increases. Gigabit Internet is still limited to a handful of cities globally, and that's not likely to change much in the next five to ten years. The vast majority of broadband connections even in Western countries are still <50Mbps. Sure, this router isn't targeting mass-market adoption, but a 10Gb WAN port is still silly even for enthusiasts. Can you find me a 10Gb modem that's not enterprise-grade?
Also, "most don't even consider it when building a new PC and go to 32gigs. Lots of stuff like that." Sorry, what? Given RAM prices for the past couple of years, that's just absurd. Outside of people with too much money to care or people needing lots of RAM for video, CAD or similar work, it's been quite a while since I saw a proposed PC build beyond 16GB. And 16GB is still plenty for most use cases, after all. 8GB was plenty ten years ago; 16GB is plenty today - this isn't changing rapidly either.
Do remember that in the UK and US, ISPs don't like to actually improve the network beyond basic necessities. So no, you won't be having 10Gbit 10 years from now. You'll be lucky to get 1Gbit, if you move to some special places.
In order to properly shape your traffic, you should have 4x the bandwidth. This gives the line some breathing room and letting the edge router shape the traffic to your target rate. This is how I keep my bufferbloat around 1ms.
It's positioned as part of their "Pro Gaming" line, though, which is juvenile. From their product page: - Power to Win - designed for the very best in gaming performance - concentrate on what matters, your gaming - gaming features for more wins - create express lanes for gaming traffic - stay in the game and not in the queue - keep your lag low and your servers close - create a perfect 10G gaming setup
...and the best one, "speed up the link between your router and gaming PC by up to 10 times faster when playing online." Who has faster than 1 Gbps WAN connections? How will this make *ANY* difference in your online gaming experience? Network games are designed to use as little bandwith as possible. No benefit.
Or maybe, "go ahead and stream your gameplay in 4K on Twitch like you always wanted to." Which sounds cool, until you realize Twitch doesn't support 4K. And if it did, it'd only need 15-20 Mbps. Their marketing people know this. They're hoping you don't.
.11ad usable range is line-of-sight out to less than 15'. There aren't really any .11ad PCIe or USB NICs available. If you're dropping $500 on a router for "ultimate gaming performance", you're using a desktop PC and connecting it via an Ethernet cable to minimize lag.
.11ad is for replacing a short high-throughput cable run, like to a wireless VR headset or 8K display that none of us have yet. And by then both the price of .11ad wireless routers and the capabilities of their firmware will have significantly changed.
This is an overpriced solution waiting for a problem.
Completely agree. Besides the obvious point that this will never be a replacement for regular WiFi (line-of-sight required for coverage, ffs!), if .11ad devices are to have any utility at all, they _need_ to be small and easy to place optimally, not integrated into a huge, hulking router. I suppose that's another use for the 10GbE port? Add PoE, and you could have a good solution. If not, we'd need to start placing our routers as visibly as possible in the place where they'd be most likely to be utilized, rather than placing them optimally for wireless coverage. That's just stupid.
I agree it's overpriced. You can has most of the feature for half the price in XR500.
Also, the 10Gb SPF+ is probably for 10GBE NAS or switches. Like you, I doubt many have a SFP+ 10Gb connection.
The only thing interesting are the actual routing performance of this under multi-user, multi-use scenario (streaming, gaming, etc). One can get a basic baseline of this browsing the XR500 user comments, even though XR700 has a beefier SoC:
The Pro Gaming WiFi Router named as XR700 Router has full support on the game with the cut edge hardware. For more information regarding Routers, one can also check Linksys Support, here one may get more help regarding routers (if Any).
its marketing BS nobody needs this. Plenty of fantastic routers made by netgear in the sub 200 range. Folks always like to throw future proofing as a reason but lets be honest... by the time we actually need something like this, there will be many more models to choose from.
netgear always lets me down on reliability... i dont trust these things to not reset every week and you need to unplug and wait for them to work again. trust me netgear is not on the cutting edge.
$500 for a router, wow. The performance better match the price tag this time, the older XR500 wasn't the best performer in the reviews I read of it. The DumaOS looks pretty and I've heard good things about it, people seem to like it, an easy to use interface with all the main features someone would want is a plus but all I care about is performance. This thing better smoke all the other routers out there if they want people to drop $500 for it. Looking forward to the Anandtech/Smallnetbuilder review of this baby.
The salt on the wound here is you can buy a $50 Ubiquiti EdgeRouterX that probably has more throughput potential than this $500 router, albeit without any wireless connectivity or 10Gbe, but a REALLY good AP can be added for $100, and I question the application of a SINGLE 10Gbe port in this router when realistically even close-range 802.11ad wont saturate a 1Gbe physical connection and nobody is going to use a router like this on an internet connection that is beyond gigabit.
Glad to see I'm not the only one leaning (heavily!) towards breaking up the "router" into separate devices and looking to Ubiquiti for this. Put the (sleek, ceiling-mounted) AP where you need for optimal coverage, place the router next to your modem or whereever you please, and put your 10GbE switch between your 10GbE devices. Forcing all of these things to live in one box is ... not optimal.
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Makaveli - Thursday, August 30, 2018 - link
Looks nice but I wouldn't be buying any new routers now until we were 802.1AX and WPA3 in products. The Duma OS is fantastic though so +1 for that.Byte - Thursday, August 30, 2018 - link
Pretty useless as I don't think even the iphone Xs will have anything higher than AC. I don't see a need for 11ad in routers, range is show short anyways, best use case is mostly just VR.qap - Friday, August 31, 2018 - link
I don't know how you buy wifi aps, but when I buy one, it stays with me for at least a decade (until it stops working). Much longer than any phone. So if there is a major improvement around a corner, it's worth waiting for it. And WPA3 alone is good enough reason. OFDMA(throughput upgrade) and TWT(battery life for mobile devices), that are included in 802.11ax are other good reasons.Valantar - Friday, August 31, 2018 - link
Completely agree. I still haven't had compelling reason to replace my old (I think it's actually more than 10 years now) Dlink 11N router, which serves the phones and laptops in the household fine for now (everything else is wired). Then again, there's no way I'm paying $500 for a router either. I'll be moving some parts of the network to 10GbE as soon as =/< 3-port switches arrive at reasonable prices (for two PCs and a NAS), but from my POV combining this with a wireless router seems like a bad idea. One would think "all-in-one" solutions like this would be cheaper overall, but they aren't at all. Then there's the lack of a useful number of ports, and seriously, who needs 10GbE WAN? Then there's the fact that optimal WiFi router placement and wired switch placement are not the same thing at all. I get that I'm more willing to pepper my house with networking devices than the average user, but this isn't targeted at the average user either.Oh, and these mmwave networking standards seem rather silly, really. When line-of-sight is required for it to work, it can't be integrated into a huge device that also serves as a wired switch. Are we supposed to hang our routers proudly on the wall as if they were art? No thanks.
imaheadcase - Friday, August 31, 2018 - link
I mean 10GbE SEEMS overkill sure, but you got to remember how fast internet is changing. Technology changes so fast, remember when people debated if needed more than 4gigs of ram in a a system..most don't even consider it when building a new PC and go to 32gigs. Lots of stuff like that.But on to the real reason, check out internet speed increases and how fast they change. In 2001 i was paying $250 a month for 128k/128k ISDN line to house with a $500 install fee. That was way more than i needed then. Literally 3 years latter we moved into "town" and could get cable internet for 512K download with 56k modem for upload speed (called it telco return) for $100 a month!
Fast forward now and rocking 300/40 from Charter for $80 a month. lol
So you say 10GbE might now mean much now, but when the tech comes to be in some VR world with realistic graphics that requires constant bandwidth you will be like "whoah".
Valantar - Sunday, September 2, 2018 - link
Internet speeds aren't increasing that quickly, and we're seeing diminishing returns in terms of infrastructure upgrades vs. end-user speed increases. Gigabit Internet is still limited to a handful of cities globally, and that's not likely to change much in the next five to ten years. The vast majority of broadband connections even in Western countries are still <50Mbps. Sure, this router isn't targeting mass-market adoption, but a 10Gb WAN port is still silly even for enthusiasts. Can you find me a 10Gb modem that's not enterprise-grade?Also, "most don't even consider it when building a new PC and go to 32gigs. Lots of stuff like that." Sorry, what? Given RAM prices for the past couple of years, that's just absurd. Outside of people with too much money to care or people needing lots of RAM for video, CAD or similar work, it's been quite a while since I saw a proposed PC build beyond 16GB. And 16GB is still plenty for most use cases, after all. 8GB was plenty ten years ago; 16GB is plenty today - this isn't changing rapidly either.
nagi603 - Tuesday, September 4, 2018 - link
Do remember that in the UK and US, ISPs don't like to actually improve the network beyond basic necessities. So no, you won't be having 10Gbit 10 years from now. You'll be lucky to get 1Gbit, if you move to some special places.bcronce - Friday, August 31, 2018 - link
In order to properly shape your traffic, you should have 4x the bandwidth. This gives the line some breathing room and letting the edge router shape the traffic to your target rate. This is how I keep my bufferbloat around 1ms.pyrrh0 - Thursday, August 30, 2018 - link
What games require 802.11ad throughput? What client devices even support this? Ridiculously expensive for theoretical uses.SirMaster - Thursday, August 30, 2018 - link
Games? This kind of throughput is for transferring large files and stuff like that.pyrrh0 - Friday, August 31, 2018 - link
It's positioned as part of their "Pro Gaming" line, though, which is juvenile. From their product page:- Power to Win
- designed for the very best in gaming performance
- concentrate on what matters, your gaming
- gaming features for more wins
- create express lanes for gaming traffic
- stay in the game and not in the queue
- keep your lag low and your servers close
- create a perfect 10G gaming setup
...and the best one, "speed up the link between your router and gaming PC by up to 10 times faster when playing online." Who has faster than 1 Gbps WAN connections? How will this make *ANY* difference in your online gaming experience? Network games are designed to use as little bandwith as possible. No benefit.
Or maybe, "go ahead and stream your gameplay in 4K on Twitch like you always wanted to." Which sounds cool, until you realize Twitch doesn't support 4K. And if it did, it'd only need 15-20 Mbps. Their marketing people know this. They're hoping you don't.
.11ad usable range is line-of-sight out to less than 15'. There aren't really any .11ad PCIe or USB NICs available. If you're dropping $500 on a router for "ultimate gaming performance", you're using a desktop PC and connecting it via an Ethernet cable to minimize lag.
.11ad is for replacing a short high-throughput cable run, like to a wireless VR headset or 8K display that none of us have yet. And by then both the price of .11ad wireless routers and the capabilities of their firmware will have significantly changed.
This is an overpriced solution waiting for a problem.
Valantar - Friday, August 31, 2018 - link
Completely agree. Besides the obvious point that this will never be a replacement for regular WiFi (line-of-sight required for coverage, ffs!), if .11ad devices are to have any utility at all, they _need_ to be small and easy to place optimally, not integrated into a huge, hulking router. I suppose that's another use for the 10GbE port? Add PoE, and you could have a good solution. If not, we'd need to start placing our routers as visibly as possible in the place where they'd be most likely to be utilized, rather than placing them optimally for wireless coverage. That's just stupid.halcyon - Friday, August 31, 2018 - link
I agree it's overpriced. You can has most of the feature for half the price in XR500.Also, the 10Gb SPF+ is probably for 10GBE NAS or switches. Like you, I doubt many have a SFP+ 10Gb connection.
The only thing interesting are the actual routing performance of this under multi-user, multi-use scenario (streaming, gaming, etc). One can get a basic baseline of this browsing the XR500 user comments, even though XR700 has a beefier SoC:
https://www.snbforums.com/threads/netgear-xr500-yo...
XR500 has Qualcomm IPQ8065 (2-core @1.7Ghz, 2-core at 800Mhz) SoC
XR700 has Qualcomm XXXX (?) (4-core, 1.G7Ghz??) SoC
It is difficult to say if there are any meaningful routing upgrades in performance. We'll have to wait for real tests.
To me, the price is silly, but some people just want "the best" (whatever they believe that to be, and which marketer they happen to trust).
Kevinson - Thursday, October 4, 2018 - link
The Pro Gaming WiFi Router named as XR700 Router has full support on the game with the cut edge hardware. For more information regarding Routers, one can also check Linksys Support, here one may get more help regarding routers (if Any).Samus - Friday, August 31, 2018 - link
I7x1Gbe ports FOR GAMING LAN PARTIESzomg!
Hxx - Friday, August 31, 2018 - link
its marketing BS nobody needs this. Plenty of fantastic routers made by netgear in the sub 200 range. Folks always like to throw future proofing as a reason but lets be honest... by the time we actually need something like this, there will be many more models to choose from.Makaveli - Friday, August 31, 2018 - link
Serious gamers don't game on wifi so it doesn't even matter :PRiZad - Thursday, September 6, 2018 - link
what games require more than 802.11b speeds? Considering most games are SUB 100MB an hour i don't see your point at allaustinsguitar - Thursday, August 30, 2018 - link
netgear always lets me down on reliability... i dont trust these things to not reset every week and you need to unplug and wait for them to work again. trust me netgear is not on the cutting edge.gigahertz20 - Thursday, August 30, 2018 - link
$500 for a router, wow. The performance better match the price tag this time, the older XR500 wasn't the best performer in the reviews I read of it. The DumaOS looks pretty and I've heard good things about it, people seem to like it, an easy to use interface with all the main features someone would want is a plus but all I care about is performance. This thing better smoke all the other routers out there if they want people to drop $500 for it. Looking forward to the Anandtech/Smallnetbuilder review of this baby.Samus - Friday, August 31, 2018 - link
The salt on the wound here is you can buy a $50 Ubiquiti EdgeRouterX that probably has more throughput potential than this $500 router, albeit without any wireless connectivity or 10Gbe, but a REALLY good AP can be added for $100, and I question the application of a SINGLE 10Gbe port in this router when realistically even close-range 802.11ad wont saturate a 1Gbe physical connection and nobody is going to use a router like this on an internet connection that is beyond gigabit.Valantar - Friday, August 31, 2018 - link
SSssssshhh! You're spoiling their marketing BS!Glad to see I'm not the only one leaning (heavily!) towards breaking up the "router" into separate devices and looking to Ubiquiti for this. Put the (sleek, ceiling-mounted) AP where you need for optimal coverage, place the router next to your modem or whereever you please, and put your 10GbE switch between your 10GbE devices. Forcing all of these things to live in one box is ... not optimal.
Mr Perfect - Saturday, September 1, 2018 - link
Yeah, for $500 they're competing with some enterprise grade gear. Honestly, I'd rather have business grade equipment then "Gamer" fluff.ToTTenTranz - Friday, August 31, 2018 - link
"The Netgear XR700 has a MSRP of USD 500, and will be available for purchase in September 2018 for USD 500."Yes but how much will it cost?
Valantar - Sunday, September 2, 2018 - link
Are you joking, or do you not understand what "MSRP" or "USD" mean?